Well...I'm on Dale's email list and I have to say he definetly has his head screwed on straight on several issues. And I have to honest...I can't sit back and say he's wrong. Yes, I do think there is a hell...but I also know that there are 3 things most people don't think about. (1) God said that hell was made for the fallen angels...NOT us (2) God said that he wished none would perish |
This wishing none to perish is greatly used out of context. if you read it in context, he is referring to a certain group of people, at a certain time. The persecution/judgment that was about to befall them, was the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and the end of the age of the OT mode of covenant thinking. This judgment was spoken of throughout the OT, in Deuteronomy 32 the last days of Israel are predicted, and again in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and it is mentioned through many other books. This was what was spoken of and predicted by the fathers that slept at the time of Peter's writing. The mockers came saying, "so, when is this judgment supposed to happen, things go on as always...blah blah blah." Peter says God is not slack concerning his promise, but is merciful, holding if off till all of his people are brought in, not wishing that any (of those people) should perish.
So the view has nothing to do with a universalist view of all mankind, but a certain group of people at that time, prior to the judgment of thos last days of Israel.
(3) At the day of Judgment, He said that he will judge the living and the dead. If the dead are already in hell...why would God judge them a second time?
I would not be surprised if at the Day of Judgment all or most of hell's captives get forgiven and allowed access into heaven. I mean, isn't that the heart of God anyway? |
A big point that the modern church, in their Gentile mindset, has greatly misunderstood, is the idea of the afterlife before and after the cross. It would take way too long to exegete it all here, so let me give you a real brief overview...then maybe in your Bible reading you'll see it more and be aware of it.
Prior to the cross, all mankind, every single person, because of the sin and "the death" brought on by Adam, all mankind when they died, went to Sheol (Hades in the NT), the place of the dead...to await the promised Messiah. Even Jesus reveals this place in his parable of Lazarus and the Rich man (Abraham's Bosom story in Luke). Get a concordance out, and look up every usage of Sheol in the OT, and you'll see the context and expectation of the OT saints.
All mankind went there, and therefore death had victory over man, as man was in the power of the death. However, Jesus came, tasted the death for all mankind, and during his 3 days of death, went down and preached to those held there (1 Pet 3:19), conquered death by being the first to return from that place permanently (1 Cor 15), and he took away the sting and victory of death and the grave by doing away with it...reversing the death brought on by Adam (which was spiritual, not physical). From that point on, all mankind upon death now, do not go to this place, but immediately go to be judged and receive their proper designation to heaven or hell. Death has been defeated...it has been destroyed, it no longer hold any power or fear to mankind. the strong man has been bound, and his house has been overthrown.
EDIT: Just thought of something. Jesus died to pay for the sins of all men. Isn't there only one sin mentioned in the entire Bible that says can't be forgiven? The famous "unpardonable sin"? If it is the only sin that cannot be forgiven by Jesus' blood, that means a large portion of those who have 'died and gone to hell' can be forgive of their sins after death. Remember...God is an eternal God. Abraham was taking advantage of Jesus' blood long before he ever died on the cross. |
This comes from a greatly misunderstood use of the term "all" and the extent of the atonement. The Greek word for "all" means "all manner of" not "all without distinction." Jesus died for "all manner of" men, not just the Jews. The Jews thought salvation only belonged to them, and they were corrected by being told that Jesus gave his life for all manner of men, Gentiles included.
Jesus and the Apostles were clear in the Gospels that Jesus came and died for. For instance:
Matthew 20:28 - Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for
many.
John 10:11 - I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. (he died for the sheep, not the goats).
There are so many more I could mention, but this post is getting so long already. Suffice it to say, Jesus paid the full price to fully secure those to whom God sent him to ransom and redeem (the sheep, the elect, etc.), and they shall never be plucked from his hand. But he did not pay the whole price for every single person...or what you and Dale are saying would be true.
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